The room got noisy, a little commotion at each table with a question from the corner. “But what about values. Isn’t it important to interview for values?”

“So, how do you interview for values? Can you see a value?” I asked. The room was still noisy, but there was no response to the question. “Perhaps, if we narrowed the question to something more specific. Which value did you have in mind?” Several hands went up.

“Loyalty,” someone shouted, “I want my team members to be loyal, loyal to me, loyal to the team, loyal to the company.”

“Okay, let’s take loyalty,” I replied amidst the clamor. “Remember, I don’t want you to play amateur psychologist, I want you to play to your strength as a manager. Ask yourself this one simple question. How does a person, who is loyal, behave?”

“They will put the team ahead of themselves. They will carry out a team decision even if they don’t necessarily agree with it.”

“Good. That is what you interview for. Find out a situation where their team made a decision they did not agree with. Ask them what the task was, the action they took and the result. If they tell you how wrong the team was and how they complained to upper management, it is likely they will fault your team decisions and complain to your management.”

It’s a simple question, how does a person, who is loyal, behave? -TF

“I still think it is a valid question,” Raymond remained adamant. “I want to know where they think they will be in five years. I think I can interpret a lot from that.”

“Raymond, I don’t want you to interpret anything in the interview process. The likelihood that you will misinterpret the response is too high for that to be a valuable question. It will give you minimal insight and introduce confusion into the interview process. You will make a hiring decision based on something you are trying to interpret. Your interpretation is likely to be wrong and it will tend to color the rest of the interview.”

Raymond’s face betrayed his stomach. He remained defensive. He had hung so many interviews on that one famous question.

“Raymond, you end up relying on your gut feeling, because you have not established anything else in the interview process on which to base your decision. It is no wonder you are not satisfied with the candidates you have hired in the past.” -TF

Raymond still looked puzzled. I think I had him talked out of playing amateur psychologist when interviewing candidates, but asking him to play to his strength as a manager was still fuzzy.

“Look, Raymond. As a manager, you can spot positive behavior and negative behavior on the shop floor. As a manager, you are an expert in positive and negative behavior. That’s the key. All you have to do is ask questions about situations in their prior work experience. Find out what the task was, their actions (behavior) and the final result. All I want you to do is collect STARs. Situation, Task, Action, Result. The actions they took will tell you how they will behave when they come to work for you.”

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. All you have to do is find out what it was. -TF

“How many of you took a psychology course in high school or college?” I asked. A few hands went up. “And how many of you have a degree in psychology?” Most of the hands go down, still leaving one in the air. “And are you certified by the state to practice either as a psychologist or a psychiatrist?” The single hand dropped.

We were talking about hiring and the tendency of the manager to try to climb inside the head of the candidate to discover motivations and intentions. “Stop trying to play psychologist! You are not qualified to do it,” I said, looking straight at Raymond.

“But, I think it is a valid question,” snapped Raymond. “I just want to see where their head is at.”

“That’s the problem. You are not trained to make that kind of psychological evaluation. Listen,” I continued, with another question, “How many of you, as a manager, can spot positive behavior out on the floor?” The hands were tentative, but every hand in the room went up. “And how many of you can spot negative behavior out on the floor?” All the hands rose higher. “And how long does it take for you to spot it?”

“Immediately, on the spot, right away,” came the replies.

“Here it is, then. Stop trying to play amateur psychologist, you are not qualified. Play to your strength. You can spot positive and negative behavior in an instant because you are a manager. Play to your strength as a manager. Especially during the hiring interview.” -TF

Marcus flipped the report across the desk so I could see it. Turnover had crept up significantly over last year and HR was on the rampage. “I think we have to raise our base pay, though we are already over market, we just can’t seem to keep people.”

“Tell, me, why do they leave?”

“Oh, they don’t leave, we usually fire them.”

“Are you keeping track of this? How many of these turnovers were voluntary and how many were terminations?” I asked.

Marcus thought for a minute, “I’m not sure. We haven’t been keeping the numbers that way.”

Turnover can be deceiving. Tracking turnover statistics needs a breakdown, at least to voluntary vs. terminations. Voluntary departures are likely a retention issue. Terminations are likely a recruiting issue. Solving retention issues are completely different than solving recruiting issues. As your team sits down to review your turnover statistics, you might consider more detail in your breakdown. -TF