“Tell me about a time when accuracy was very important. How did you make sure you balanced to the penny? -That’s the question,” I recited. “When you ask that question in an interview, what will you find out related to values?”

Sara was thoughtful. “First, I would learn how the candidate decides that accuracy is important. Accuracy is a nice thing to say, but it’s not an absolute on every project. I could ask – What was it, about that project, that tipped you off, that accuracy was important?”

“And what else would you learn in their response?”

“I could have the person step me through their methods that ensure accuracy. If it’s an inventory count, or a price estimate, their response would tell me what they did, to make sure the numbers were right.”

“How would you make sure they aren’t giving you some memorized textbook answer?” I prodded.

“Because I would ask them for real examples,” Sara insisted. “And more than one. They may have one story cooked up, but when I press for a second and third example, the truth always comes out.”

“I get it,” Sara smiled. “I know, for someone to be a high performer, they have to value the work in the role. If they don’t place a high value on the work, it isn’t likely they will do a good job.”

“Not in the long run,” I confirmed. “In the short term, you can always bribe people with pizza, but once the pizza’s gone, you’re done.” (This is known as a diagnostic assessment.)

“I’m with you,” Sara nodded. “But how do you interview for values. I am afraid if I ask the question, straight up, I am going to get a textbook answer. The candidate is just going to agree with me.”

“Sara, when you are observing your team, watching them work, can you see their values?”

Sara stopped. “I think so, I mean, I can see enthusiasm. I can tell when someone is happy.”

“How can you tell?”

“I can just watch them,” she replied. “I can see it in their behavior.”

“Exactly. You cannot see a person’s values, you can only see their behavior. And that is what you interview for, their behavior. As a manager, just ask this question – How does a person with (this value) behave?”

Sara’s eyes narrowed. I continued.

“Let’s say that you have an accounting position and that accuracy, specifically with numbers is an important value.”

“You can’t ask them if they think accuracy is important. Of course, they will say – yes.”

I nodded. “As a manager, ask yourself this question. How does a person behave if they value accuracy in their work.”

“I know that one,” Sara jumped in. “I once asked our bookkeeper how she always balanced to the penny. She told me she always added things twice. People who value accuracy in their work always add things twice.”

“So, what question would you ask?” I pressed.

“Tell me about a time when accuracy was very important. How did you make sure you balanced to the penny?”

From the Ask Tom mailbag.

Question:
You talk about the importance of Interest, or passion in the workplace and that we should interview for it. How does this play into job fit?

Response:
Elliott Jaques (Requisite Organization) talked about four specific criteria for success in any role.

1. Time Span Capability
2. Skills
3. Interest
4. Reasonable Behavior

While most of my workshops focus on Time Span Capability, the other three are as critical to success. I may possess the Time Span Capability for a role, and I may possess the necessary Skills to perform in that role, but if I lack Interest in that work, it is not likely that I will perform to a high level.

So, what is it, that we are interested in? What is it, that we have passion for? Especially in the workplace?

We have interest and passion for that work on which we place a high value. So when you include questions about values in your interviews (or managerial conversations), you seek to discover the interest and passion of the candidate for the work at hand.

While you may be able to beat me into short-term compliance for a specific task, long-term effectiveness in a role requires this Interest.

Ray was looking at his list. “So, I can count on losing this person. They already gave their notice. And I know they will continue to have contact with the other team members, so I know they will talk.”

“Yes, they will talk. And they will talk about money. And money will appear to be the only reason to work at one company versus another. In what way can you, as a manager, put this in perspective for your team. In what way can you effectively communicate, effectively remind people about the other reasons people work, the other reasons people work here?”

Ray was shaking his head, then nodding his head. “So, it turns out that our team culture is really important after all.”

“Yes, when we sit and talk about job satisfaction, matching people’s talents with job requirements, matching people’s capability with the challenge level in the position, creating a trusting work environment, you think I am talking about being warm and fuzzy. The reason that stuff is important, the reason you have to pay attention, is to win this war against competitors. And you can’t win it with money.

“And if all your competitor has to offer is money, then you will make it very expensive for them. And in the end, their cost structure will be out of whack, and you will still win your customers. Culture eats the competition for breakfast.”

“Can you match the other offer?” I asked.

“Not a chance. Our business model isn’t built around that kind of compensation. We don’t have those deep pockets,” Ray replied.

“Then you will lose them,” I nodded.

Ray was quiet. “There’s nothing I can do?”

“No, you are going to lose them.”

“But, I could lose my whole team,” Ray protested. “There must be something I can do.”

“Accept the fact that you could lose your whole team.”

Ray sat back, his eyes slowly went to the ceiling, staring at a corner. “Okay, so what do I do?”

“First, look at your roster, this list of people on your team. Would this other company really come in here and hire every one of them with an offer to double their compensation? For real?”

“Well, no, there is only one person, who worked for them before,” Ray was ticking through the list. “And they are truly an A performer. They probably deserve what they were making at the other company. We just couldn’t match it here.”

“So, let’s say your team does become a target, the offers are likely to be competitive, let’s say 3 percent better. What can you do to retain your team?”

“Trouble in River City,” Ray warned.

“How so?” I replied.

“In 2008, we hired a person, who I thought was overqualified for the position. They had more experience than any on our team, previously worked for another company at double the compensation, but they had been laid off and I said, what the heck.”

“So, what’s the problem, now?”

“They have been a remarkable team member, always on time, always doing helpful things beyond their job description, coaching other team members through difficult problems. Their old employer just called, layoff is over, old job available at double our compensation. I got notice.”

“So, what’s the problem?”

“I want to know how I can prevent this. It’s probably going to happen again. Things may still appear bleak, but some of the monster companies look like they are rebuilding. I am afraid they are going to raid my people, and they have the deep pockets to do so.”