Tag Archives: hiring talent

Candidates Talk the Talk

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From the Ask Tom mailbag –

Question:
I’ve conducted interviews where we’ve asked behavioral questions, like “Please share a specific example in your last position where you led a team in accomplishing a specific task. Share what steps you took and any processes you put in place to be successful. What were any of your challenges?” These questions did help us see how the candidate thinks and leads and whether s/he’s innovative. But in the end, we have had some candidates who are really great at interviewing and talking the talk but when they get in the position they are not effective. So, are there any other questions or exercises we should use in interviews to further test the veracity of the candidate and their experience?

Response:
It’s all about the work. I see three possible problems.

Failure to Identify the Level of Work
The biggest mistake most companies make is underestimating the level of work. I see this over and over, so much so, that I finally wrote a book about it, Hiring Talent, Decoding Levels of Work in the Behavioral Interview. There is a level of problem solving and a level of decision making in every role. Here is my fast list of problem solving levels –

  • Level I – Trial and error
  • Level II – Experience, best practices
  • Level III – Root cause or comparative analysis
  • Level IV – Systems analysis, reinforcing and balancing systems
  • Level V – Internal systems and external systems analysis

Your candidate may have solved a problem in a former role, but what was the level of work required to solve the problem?

Failure to Get Specific
The manager-once-removed and the hiring manager have to spend time to truly think through the work. If the critical role requirement is to be the leader of a group of 13 software engineers, the interviewer has to listen for details, like how many people on the team? Full-time managerial role or limited project length? Match the details in the candidate’s experience with the details in the critical role requirements.

Failure to Practice
Most managers don’t get enough practice. They don’t interview candidates often enough to get good at it, and are seldom trained to conduct effective interviews. The candidates they face have been coached by headhunters, trained through role play, and are intent on beating the manager in a game of cat and mouse. Practice, practice, practice.

The Likelihood of Success

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From the Ask Tom mailbag:

Question:
So, how do you interview for someone with the capability to think into the future?

Response:
Capability is like attitude. I cannot interview for attitude and I cannot interview for capability. I can only interview for behaviors connected to attitude and capability.

First, is the capability to think into the future, a requirement for the role? Most supervisory and managerial roles require this capability, so this is a fair area for exploration.

My bias is to ask ONLY questions about the past. I do not want the candidate to speculate or make stuff up. No hypotheticals or theories. I have enough trouble deciphering real facts from the past.

  • Tell me about a time when (my favorite opening question), you worked on a project that took some time to complete, one that required several steps with a number of moving parts?
  • How long did the project take?
  • What was the purpose of the project? The goal for the project?
  • How many people were involved?
  • Step me through the planning process?
  • Was the plan written or just in your head?
  • How was the plan shared with the project team?
  • What was your role in preparing the plan?
  • As the plan was executed, what factors pushed the plan off course?
  • Tell me how the plan accounted for factors that pushed the plan off course?
  • How did the project team respond to changes in the plan?
  • How were decisions made in response to changes in the plan?
  • How did those changes impact the budget for the plan?
  • How did those changes impact the schedule for the plan?
  • How did those changes impact the overall results of the plan?

The responses to these questions will give the interviewer insight into behaviors connected with capability to think into the future, not just think, but make decisions, solve problems, execute into the future? These responses are fact-based and do not require interpretation, yet provide evidence, which can be verified in a cooperative reference check.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. All I have to do, as an interviewer, is to find out how the candidate behaved in the past. There is great likelihood the candidate will behave the same way when they come to work for you.

Don’t Go to Hope Island

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From the Ask Tom mailbag –

Question:
Yesterday, you talked about looking for evidence of potential. I followed the explanation, but I am still looking for some sort of instrument to help measure a candidate’s capability or more importantly, a candidate’s potential for higher capability. I get that I can measure the level of work in a candidate’s current or former role and match (or not match) that to the level of work in our open role. I can assume that if a person was effective in that level of work somewhere else, they are likely to be effective in that level of work with us. But I still want to know if they might have the potential for higher levels of work now, or sometime in the future.

Response:
There is a temptation in this discussion for managers to visit a place called Hope Island. Hope Island is a wonderful resort destination with luxury accommodations at the Assumption Hotel. The five-star Assumption Hotel has a water theme park sporting a replica of Egypt’s Denial River and a water flume ride where participants ride down the steep Pitch of Performance into a pool of reflective water.

As long as we are not going to Hope Island, we can continue this discussion.

Kevin Earnest replied to yesterday’s post to discuss some specific tools that may be useful to the manager and the manager-once-removed. “As we know from Human Capability, when an employee, manager and MoR “calibrate” to a person’s CPC (current potential capability), they are placing a dot on the Talent Pool Maturation Data Sheet and making a hypothesis about the person’s potential development. If you follow the trajectory on the Data Sheet, we can foresee their anticipated long term potential development. CEOs and managers must continue testing the hypothesis with additional tasks or special projects (real talent pool development) to determine if, in fact, the person is maturing as anticipated.”

So, there is an instrument, a chart that can be useful to the manager and manager-once-removed. This chart is documented most thoroughly in a book first published in 1994 called Human Capability, by Elliott Jaques and Kathryn Cason. This chart is a visual representation of how a person’s natural capability matures through time. It shows different trajectories as each person, in their own life, is on their own path.

Talent Pool Maturation Data Sheet

Talent Pool Maturation Data Sheet

But here is the critical part of Kevin’s response. While the chart may be helpful, it must be tested continually with projects and tasks. Stay off of Hope Island. The only measure of performance is performance. Lee Thayer said that.

Greatest Evidence of Potential in a Team Member

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From the Ask Tom mailbag –

Question:
Is there any way to determine the long term potential of someone early in their career? Based on your workshop, I assume the answer is “no,” although I am hoping the answer is “yes.”

Response:
Your assumption is correct, a manager’s pursuit of the crystal ball related to a person’s potential is misguided. But your interest in long term potential is absolutely necessary for every manager-once-removed. While the manager is most often focused on productivity, the manager-once-removed must spend time thinking about the long term health of the entire team, and that includes the potential in individual players.

Stephen Clement taught me to remember, “It’s all about the work.” Focus on the work. If you want to see a team member’s potential, look at their work. Work output related to the task assignment will reveal hard evidence of potential.

Does the team member exhibit any of these characteristics.

  • All work is completed on time and within the quality spec of the task?
  • The team member appears to take minor problems and challenges in stride?
  • The team member recognizes larger problems quickly and reports possible solutions along with the problem?
  • The team member appropriately experiments with task elements and work sequence that produces effective changes in processes?
  • The team member volunteers for tasks beyond their current role?
  • The team member remains appropriately optimistic in the face of minor setbacks of task difficulty, and describes the learning that occurs from a failed task?

The greatest evidence of potential is evidence of potential.

Candidates Don’t Make Up Stuff, Do They?

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“What do you mean, evidence?” Stella asked. “It’s an interview. If someone says they are up to the task, that they are interested in the challenge, that they really want the responsibility, what more can you get? I mean, I asked those hard questions.”

“Exactly what were the questions you asked,” I wanted to know. “Let’s list out those hard questions.”

“Okay,” Stella started. “I asked if he really thought he was up to the task? I explained just how difficult the job would be and asked him if he would really be interested in the challenge? I asked him why he wanted that level of responsibility?”

“So, you asked him the perfect questions, so he could lie to you?”

It’s Not Micro-Management

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“As the manager-once-removed, what else am I responsible for in this hiring process?” Byron asked.

“Since this hire is two Strata below, and as the manager of the hiring manager, you are the coach,” I replied.

“Coach?” Byron questioned.

“Yes, coach. How good is Ron at hiring?”

“Well, he doesn’t have that much experience with it, but he has hired people before. I always hope he does a good job, but, I don’t want to micro-manage him.”

“It is not micro-management to sit down with Ron and hammer out the role description. I mean a real role description, one that you can interview from. It’s not micro-management to sit down with Ron and talk about creating a list of 50-60 critical questions that need to be asked during the interview. You are the coach. This is your process to drive. Delegation is not abdication.”

Who Creates the Talent Pool?

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“In the midst of everything I have to do, with all of my management issues and motivation issues, you expect me to read resumes,” Byron was putting his foot down. “I am a Vice-President in this company. I have other people that read resumes for me.”

I did not respond, just raised an eyebrow. I could see the exasperation on Byron’s face.

“So, just exactly what do I do?” asked Byron. “I mean, I know what to do when I need to hire a manager on my team, but to hire a supervisor on one of my manager’s teams?”

“You won’t make the final selection, but I do hold you accountable for driving this process. Logistically, here is what it looks like. Your division has an opening two strata below you. As the manager-once-removed, it is your accountability to create the talent pool from which the hiring manager will select. Creating the talent pool means that you drive this process. Every morning, when you are fresh, I expect you to come in and spend a half hour to forty five minutes reviewing resumes. That’s every day, whether you have an opening in your division, or not. I expect that each day, you will find two or three resumes that you will find interesting. I expect you to make two or three screening phone calls every day. Once or twice a week, I expect you will actually run across a candidate. If you find only one per week, that is fifty people per year that you might bring in to interview for a supervisor level position.”

“But we have never had fifty people that qualified,” Byron continued to push back.

“Is that the truth, or is that something you believe to be true?”
_________
Hiring Talent, the print version, will be available from Amazon within the week, so we have a new cover. This link is for the Kindle version, available now.
Hiring Talent

Looking to Push Back

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I could see Byron looking for a lame excuse to push back from the idea that, as the manager-once-removed, his job is to create the talent pool from which the hiring manager makes the selection.

“Let me get this straight,” he started. “The open position is for a high level supervisor, Stratum II role, time-span – nine months. Ron is the hiring manager, one stratum above. I am the manager-once-removed, two strata above the open position. And I am supposed to create the talent pool that Ron picks from?”

“You have it. That is your role,” I replied.

Byron was shaking his head. “But, I don’t have time for all this. I have some very important projects that I have to work on. This is just a supervisor position.”

It was my turn to nod. “Yes, it is a supervisor position. And if Ron makes the wrong hire, how much of your time will you have to spend coaching Ron on how to deal with this bad hire? You can spend the time now to help make a proper hire, or you can spend the time later dealing with the mistake.

“Which course of action contributes to productivity?” I continued. “Which course of action builds a better infrastructure? What more important project do you have to work on, than building this infrastructure in your department?”

Who Builds the Talent Pool?

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Orientation for our next Hiring Talent online program starts next Monday. For more information or pre-registration, follow this link Hiring Talent – 2013.
_____
Byron was a bit unsettled. “Do you mean that I should read those resumes? I’m not the hiring manager,” he stated flatly.

“No, and we already established that the level of work of the hiring manager is too close to the level of work of the new position. The hiring manager is threatened by this new hire and does not have enough perspective to see the correct talent pool. That is why this step in the process is up to you.”

“But, I am not the hiring manager,” he continued to protest.

“No, you are the manager-once-removed. Are you threatened by this hire?” I asked.

“Well, no, this position is two levels of work down from me.”

“Exactly, and do you have better perspective on what is really required for success in this position?”

Byron nodded. “But reading resumes. I don’t have time to read resumes and this is not my hire.”

“I am not asking you to make the hire. That is still Ron’s job. Your role in the hiring process, as the manager-once-removed, is to create the talent pool. You create the talent pool of qualified candidates. Ron makes the hire from the pool.”
_____
Just released on Kindle. The only book on hiring that blends the research on levels of work with the discipline of behavioral interviewing. The research on levels of work, pioneered by the late Elliott Jaques, is powerful science. The discipline of behavioral interviewing is the most effective method for its application. This is the only book that puts these two ideas together in a practical framework for managers faced with the hiring decision.
Hiring Talent

Who Drives This Decision?

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Orientation for our next Hiring Talent online program starts next Monday. For more information or pre-registration, follow this link Hiring Talent – 2013.
_____
Ron settled in a chair across from Byron, his manager. We exchanged appropriate pleasantries and set the context for a conversation about the candidate pool for a new position. Byron finally drilled in.

“Ron, you know I don’t think these three candidates are qualified for the position. But you said these were the only ones who fit our budget.”

“Yep, I know things are tight around here, and figured I could save the company some money, bring in one of these people. I could show them the ropes, take them in under my wing and everything would be fine.”

“Were there other candidates that were too expensive for us?” I asked.

“Sure, we had seven other resumes, but they were no bargain. We would have to pay full boat for any of them.”

I thanked Ron for his time and he left Byron and I to debrief.

“Byron, I don’t know, but my guess is that there are seven resumes of candidates that we need to look at. So, tell me, why do you think Ron is having difficulty with this hire, looking at the wrong talent pool of people?”

Byron was troubled, but the fog was lifting. “I think Ron was threatened by those resumes that he described as too expensive. You are right. Some of the salary requirements are close to what Ron is making. And I don’t think Ron has enough perspective to truly understand what will be required in this supervisor position.”

“Byron, let me recap. This whole process started at the bottom with Irene, the receptionist, who first sorted the resumes, through another supervisor, who screened the resumes and finally to Ron, the hiring manager. None are making good decisions in this selection process.

“So, who should be driving this?” I continued, “Who is left? Who understands what is truly required and is not threatened by this hire?”

“Do you mean, me?” Byron asked.

I nodded affirmative. “You are Ron’s manager, the manager-once-removed for this role.”
_____
Just released on Kindle. The only book on hiring that blends the research on levels of work with the discipline of behavioral interviewing. The research on levels of work, pioneered by the late Elliott Jaques, is powerful science. The discipline of behavioral interviewing is the most effective method for its application. This is the only book that puts these two ideas together in a practical framework for managers faced with the hiring decision.
Hiring Talent