“So, the relationship between your supervisor (Vince) and production (Muriel) is all about effectivenesss. And that relationship is an accountability relationship,” I explained.

Sylvia nodded, so I continued, “What is the appropriate relationship between you, as manager, and production? What is the nature of the relationship for the Manager-Once-Removed?”

“It can’t also be an accountability relationship, because then production would have two bosses. That’s a little schizophrenic.” Sylvia’s head turned. “But the conversation I was having with Muriel wasn’t about production. I was interested in how she was doing as a person. I was interested in how she was adjusting, how she was finding things with the company.”

It was my turn to nod.

Sylvia continued. “As the Manager-Once-Removed, I think it is important to have those conversations. Her Supervisor will talk with her about production, making sure production gets done. My role, as a Manager, is to create the system, monitor the system. It’s important for me to find out the condition of the system.”

Mentoring

“Is it also your responsibility to be grooming your next wave of supervisors?” I asked.

“Yes, and my next supervisors are going to come from my best team leaders. As the Manager Once Removed, I need to be having conversations about career paths and opportunities within the company.”

“And, as a Manager, do you also have an accountability relationship with Muriel’s supervisor?”

“Yes, and I can find out a lot about Vince’s performance as a supervisor by having a Manager Once Removed conversation with Muriel.”

“First of all, Sylvia, every company is a real company, even a company of three,” I replied. “As companies grow larger, the structure of how they work together becomes more complicated, for better or for worse.”

“Well, we have a good sized company,” Sylvia responded. “We have supervisors, managers, vice-presidents and a CEO. And we have an organizational chart.”

“So, let’s talk about those relationships and how they work best. A production worker talks to their supervisor. What is the nature of that relationship? What do they talk about?”

“They talk about problems,” Sylvia started. “Production problems, problems with the work.”

“Or successes with the work,” I picked up. “But their relationship is around the work. It’s all about the work. This reporting relationship is an accountability relationship.”

Sylvia nodded.

“Not as a Supervisor, but as a manager, when you have a conversation with a production worker, you are the Manager Once Removed. What is this conversation about? What is the nature of this relationship?”

Accountability

“That’s what Vince objected to,” Sylvia quickly protested. “I felt that it was an appropriate conversation, but when Vince objected, I didn’t know what to say.”

“That’s because Vince was wrong. What is the nature of the relationship of the Manager Once Removed?”