Author Archives: Tom Foster

About Tom Foster

Tom Foster spends most of his time talking with managers and business owners. The conversations are about business lives and personal lives, goals, objectives and measuring performance. In short, transforming groups of people into teams working together. Sometimes we make great strides understanding this management stuff, other times it’s measured in very short inches. But in all of this conversation, there are things that we learn. This blog is that part of the conversation I can share. Often, the names are changed to protect the guilty, but this is real life inside of real companies.

Benefits of Team Interviewing

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“We have been using a Team approach to hiring,” Byron floated. “What do you think of having Team interviews?”

“How do you find that helpful?” I asked.

“Sometimes a single interview might miss something important. If there is another Hiring Team member in the room, they might catch it,” Byron replied.

“I am all for Interview Teams. But I don’t want to gang up on candidates. Here is the way I like to use Teams.

“Let’s say we put three people on the Interview Team. We have a meeting to decide on what areas we intend to cover during the interview. Some areas will overlap and that’s fine. These will be separate interviews and I would like to know if the candidate tells the same story to similar questions.

“And some of the areas will be different, depending on the Interview Team member. They have different areas of expertise and follow different lines of questions.

“But the most significant reason to work with an Interview Team is to put together the list of 50-60 questions that create the base line for the interview.”

Byron looked a little surprised. We had talked about this number of questions before, but I couldn’t tell if he was a believer. “Fifty or sixty prepared questions?”

“Yes, and that’s only the beginning.”

It’s Not Micro-Management

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“As the Manager Once Removed, what else am I responsible for in this hiring process?” Byron asked.

“Since this hire is two Strata below, and since you are the manager of the Hiring Manager, you are the coach,” I replied.

“Coach?” Byron questioned.

“Yes, coach. How good is Ron at hiring?”

“Well, he doesn’t have that much experience with it, but he has hired people before. I don’t want to micro-manage him.”

“It is not micro-management to sit down with Ron and hammer out the job description. I mean a real job description, one that you can interview from. It’s not micro-management to sit down with Ron and create a list of 50-60 critical questions that need to be asked during the interview. You are the coach. This is your process to drive.”

MOR Drives the Hiring Process

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“So, just exactly what do I do?” asked Byron. He had hired people before, but he had never looked at hiring in exactly this way.

“Your department has an opening two Strata below you. As the Manager Once Removed, it is your responsibility to create the Talent Pool from which the Hiring Manager will select. Creating the Talent Pool means that you drive this process. Every morning, when you are fresh, I expect you to come in and spend a half hour to forty five minutes reviewing resumes. I expect that each day, you will find two or three that you will find an interest in. I expect you to make two or three screening phone calls every day. Once or twice a week, I expect you will actually run across a candidate. If you find only one per week, that is fifty people per year that you might bring in to interview for a supervisor level position.”

“But we have never had fifty people that qualified,” Byron continued to push back.

“Have you ever walked in the woods, stepped over a log that had a snake under it, that you didn’t know about?” I asked.

Byron was one of the sharp light bulbs in the box. “Trick question?” he asked.

“Trick question.”

A Manager’s Most Important Decision

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“But I am busy,” protested Byron. “How am I going to find time to read resumes?”

“Schedule it. You need to be thinking, each and every day about your team and what would happen if any of them needed to make a change. Your most important function as a manager is personnel and recruiting. In fact, if that is all you ever did, was to build a high performance team, and then walked in front of a bus, at your funeral, I would describe you as one of our greatest managers. Because you left behind, a high performing team that could carry on.”

“It’s that important?” Byron tested.

“Top priority. The most important decision every manager makes, whether it’s recruiting or delegating, is ‘who?’ All other decisions are secondary.”
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I call this catch up week. Our current online program, Hiring Talent, kicked off Orientation last week. Still time to catch up. Find out more here.

Time Span is Not Magic

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From the Ask Tom Mailbag –

Question:
Can you give me an example of how you would incorporate Time Span in a Role Description?

Response:
This is not magic. Don’t think of Time Span as something extra in the Role Description. Time Span is simply a part of every description of task assignments and defined goals.

Level of Work
Time Span helps us calibrate the Level of Work, so we can more specifically describe the task assignments and embedded goals. What is the difference between these two descriptions –

  • Project Manager – candidate will be managing all project elements, people, materials, equipment, supplies and supporting vendors for projects three months in length.
  • Project Manager – candidate will be managing all project elements, people, materials, equipment, supplies and supporting vendors for projects eighteen months in length.

The Level of Work in the first description would be Stratum II. This would be a coordinating role, likely assembling project elements from known checklists of personnel, materials, equipment and approved vendors.

The Level of Work in the second description would be Stratum III. This coordination will require the manager to deal with many unknown elements one and half years into the future. There will likely be personnel changes during that time, along with changes in scope, materials with lead times, vendors going out of business, equipment that becomes obsolete, changes in materials pricing. The complexity goes way up and will require a higher level of capability.

Time Span is simply the “by when” of every task assignment or embedded goal. The language we use to communicate task assignments doesn’t change, we just, now, understand the significance of time related to the Level of Work.

Poof, You’re a Manager

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From the Ask Tom Mailbag –

Question:
Hey Tom, I want your opinion on something…Why do the wrong people end up in management/leadership positions? What are the first three reasons that come to mind?

Response:
While it’s fun to poke at dysfunction, especially in managerial positions (just read Dilbert, my favorite), there are shining examples of high performing managers in most organizations. But there are a few stinky ones out there.

Next-in-line – Most teams will eventually lose their manager, either to a promotion, to another company or to trout fishing in Montana. In many cases, that team will end up with the next-in-line. This person may have been a competent assistant, been on the team the longest or simply showed up for work early on the wrong day. Poof – you’re a manager.

Mis-selection – Companies recruiting from the outside often make a poor hiring decision. For the most part, they have no clue about what it takes to be an effective manager. Clueless, they fumble through a stack of resumes, ask the wrong questions during interviews and end up with an empty suit. Poof – you’re a manager.

Skill-set – Many people are perfectly capable to be effective in a managerial role, but have never been trained in specific skills. Being a manager has a great deal to do with “who” you are, yet there are several leadership skills (yes, trainable skills) that must be learned and practiced. Most companies don’t have internal capabilities to teach or coach those skills. Poof – you’re a manager. Good luck.
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This is Orientation week for our online program Hiring Talent. If you want to get in on the fun, please follow this link.

What’s Important in the Interview?

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“Tell me about a time when accuracy was very important. How did you make sure you balanced to the penny? -That’s the question,” I recited. “When you ask that question in an interview, what will you find out related to values?”

Sara was thoughtful. “First, I would learn how the candidate decides that accuracy is important. Accuracy is a nice thing to say, but it’s not an absolute on every project. I could ask – What was it, about that project, that tipped you off, that accuracy was important?”

“And what else would you learn in their response?”

“I could have the person step me through their methods that ensure accuracy. If it’s an inventory count, or a price estimate, their response would tell me what they did, to make sure the numbers were right.”

“How would you make sure they aren’t giving you some memorized textbook answer?” I prodded.

“Because I would ask them for real examples,” Sara insisted. “And more than one. They may have one story cooked up, but when I press for a second and third example, the truth always comes out.”
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We are still in Orientation Week for Hiring Talent. For more information or registration, follow this link.

You Can’t Interview for Attitude

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“I get it,” Sara smiled. “I know, for someone to be a high performer, they have to value the work in the role. If they don’t place a high value on the work, it isn’t likely they will do a good job.”

“Not in the long run,” I confirmed. “In the short term, you can always bribe people with pizza, but once the pizza’s gone, you’re done.” (This is known as a diagnostic assessment.)

“I’m with you,” Sara nodded. “But how do you interview for values. I am afraid if I ask the question, straight up, I am going to get a textbook answer. The candidate is just going to agree with me.”

“Sara, when you are observing your team, watching them work, can you see their values?”

Sara stopped. “I think so, I mean, I can see enthusiasm. I can tell when someone is happy.”

“How can you tell?”

“I can just watch them,” she replied. “I can see it in their behavior.”

“Exactly. You cannot see a person’s values, you can only see their behavior. And that is what you interview for, their behavior. As a manager, just ask this question – How does a person with (this value) behave?”

Sara’s eyes narrowed. I continued.

“Let’s say that you have an accounting position and that accuracy, specifically with numbers is an important value.”

“You can’t ask them if they think accuracy is important. Of course, they will say – yes.”

I nodded. “As a manager, ask yourself this question. How does a person behave if they value accuracy in their work.”

“I know that one,” Sara jumped in. “I once asked our bookkeeper how she always balanced to the penny. She told me she always added things twice. People who value accuracy in their work always add things twice.”

“So, what question would you ask?” I pressed.

“Tell me about a time when accuracy was very important. How did you make sure you balanced to the penny?”
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The next group in our Hiring Talent program starts next Monday. To join the group, follow this link to pre-register.

Detail Thinking at Stratum IV

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From the Ask Tom mailbag –

Question:
At what Strata levels do details disappear, if they do?

Response:
Strata levels, as elements of Elliott Jaques model, create a visual representation of the Level of Work. Your question appears to ask about the behavioral traits of person, completing a task assignment, specifically curious about attention-to-detail as the task is completed.

Strata levels are descriptive about specific behaviors only as they relate to effectiveness in the completion of task assignments. Details never disappear. Even in longer Time Span task assignments, the devil is always in the details.

This is still an interesting question and may lend insight in describing the Level of Work in each Stratum. My answers, in the form of questions?

Level of Work – Stratum I
What details exist that will impact decision making on the pace and quality of the work?

Level of Work – Stratum II
What details exist that will impact decision making on the coordination of multiple elements, materials, equipment, people in the completion of the work, on time, within spec?

Level of Work – Stratum III
What details exist that will impact decision making in the creation of a system, so that tasks assignments are completed with predictable, consistent results, every time?

Level of Work – Stratum IV
What details exist that will impact decision making in the integration of multiple systems and sub-systems?

You see, there was an exercise described by Peter Senge in the Fifth Discipline (Stratum IV-systems thinking) called the Beer Game. The set-up of the game creates a brewery (system), two-step distribution (system) and a retail store (system). Because these systems in the simulation were not integrated, the end result typically produces the construction of an entire second brewery system. The detail, the retail store put beer on sale for one week during the simulation. The construction of the second brewery occurs NOT from market demand, but from a series of backorders put through the system in a non-integrated attempt to cover the sell-out of beer during a one-week retail sale period.

Yes, the devil is in the details, even at Stratum IV.

The Measure of Performance

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From the Ask Tom mailbag:

Question:
I attended one of your workshops last week. How do you evaluate the Potential Capability of prospective or current employees, using Time Span as the metric?

Response:
While this sounds like a simple question, there are many elements to it. Your question is all about Capability.

  • Does this person have the Capability to fill the role, now?
  • Does this person have the Potential Capability to fill this role in one or two years?
  • Is the underperformance, that I observe, related to a lack of Capability, OR another factor?

These are all absolutely legitimate questions for a manager to ask when making a decision related to task assignment, internal promotion and external recruiting from a candidate pool.

It is critical to understand that successful performance in ANY role can be traced to these four factors –

  • Capability (your question above)
  • Skill (Technical knowledge and practiced performance)
  • Interest or Passion (Value for the work)
  • Reasonable Behavior (Habits and the absence of extreme negative temperament)

And I depend on the judgment of the manager to determine which factor(s) are most directly related to the performance I observe. And if the primary factor turns out to be Capability, the most descriptive term is Applied Capability. Indeed, the person may have greater Potential Capability, but as a manager, I am only able to see Applied Capability. I can see Applied Capability because there is a work product, direct output.

But your question was about Potential Capability. As a manager, I may make an intuitive judgment that a team member has greater Potential. This typically means, that, as a manager, I observe underperformance that I deem “could be better.” The question is “why?” What factors could be changed to create higher levels of effectiveness in the role (or task)?

Changing the degree of Applied Capability has little to do with Capability. It has more to do with the other three factors. The limits to Applied Capability have to do with Skill, Interest and Reasonable Behavior. Change any one of those factors and you will see a change in Applied Capability.

But your question was about Potential Capability. The only method, as a manager, to gain insight into a person’s Potential Capability is to test for it. Project work is the single best way to test for Potential Capability. Lee Thayer says it best, “The only measure of performance, is performance.”
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Our next online program Hiring Talent kicks off Mar 19, 2012. Pre-register now.